imo it might be worth holding off on Gholdengo action until DLC2 in case we get Defog back as a TM. Getting way more removal options like bulky Boots Moltres (very random example) would help a lot with the handling the hazard meta.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3 [Sneasler Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Weird seeing Valiant when it has like….multiple viable checks. Including your’s truly
gliscor is not a reliable iron valiant check
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
That's not really an issue. Even if Gholdengo gets banned now and defog comes back back in the next dlc, we can always unban it, and stuff are always unbanned when a dlc drops anyway
i keep forgetting that the radar thread also contains all the previous radars so when i saw that the first post had flutter mane in it i was like "don't you fucking dare"
I just feel like it would be a waste of time. Opinions on Ghold aren't clear-cut enough for a quickban, so a suspect might be necessary. A suspect requires time and resources that might be better spent on other Pokémon. Imagine if we banned Ghold via suspect just for DLC2 to make it balanced again like two weeks later.
Like many, many mons banned before it, individual sets have checks, but it has 40 different actually good sets (not just 'wellackshually sets' that are technically usable but mainly prey on that no one actually uses them) that do not have overlapping checks. Scarf, Specs, Calm mind, there are like 3 different swords dance sets, Mixed quark drive, etc.
Not advocating for a quick ban or even a suspect test at this point (the big elephant in the room remains the generational mechanic long before we reach a point in the meta where IV should be considered for a suspect) but saying 'it has checks' is a little disingenuous when actually checking it requires bringing multiple checks.
Last edited:
Cryogonal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Recover
I have not played too many games with this Pokemon yet, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but from the limited amount I have played so far, Cryogonal is a decent anti-meta pick for some of the new drops like Manaphy, Ursaluna, and Gliscor that are currently being used. Tera Steel Cryogonal matches up very well vs Ursaluna, only taking 25% from Blood Moon & being able to Haze away Ursa's Calm Mind boost, while dealing big damage with Freeze Dry. Cryogonal's high speed makes it very strong vs Manaphy as well, no tera required! You can Haze away Manaphy's Calm Mind and Tail Glow boost before it has a chance to act, while also dealing big damage with Freeze Dry. I have not tested how well it does vs Gliscor, but it can wall the common EQ / Toxic / Spikes / Protect (though it requires a Tera) and Spins away its hazards quite easily while deleting it with Freeze Dry.
Of course a Pokemon like this gets completely fried by some common Pokemon, namely Gholdengo, Gambit, Iron Valiant, and Ogerpon (though Ogerpon can't switch in). Nonetheless, a fast Spin and Haze are valuable commodities in the current metagame and even against Pokemon like Gholdengo and Gambit, it can use Haze to reset their boost, which is valuable in certain positions. Freeze Dry in general is a very good STAB attack in current meta.
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Recover
I have not played too many games with this Pokemon yet, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but from the limited amount I have played so far, Cryogonal is a decent anti-meta pick for some of the new drops like Manaphy, Ursaluna, and Gliscor that are currently being used. Tera Steel Cryogonal matches up very well vs Ursaluna, only taking 25% from Blood Moon & being able to Haze away Ursa's Calm Mind boost, while dealing big damage with Freeze Dry. Cryogonal's high speed makes it very strong vs Manaphy as well, no tera required! You can Haze away Manaphy's Calm Mind and Tail Glow boost before it has a chance to act, while also dealing big damage with Freeze Dry. I have not tested how well it does vs Gliscor, but it can wall the common EQ / Toxic / Spikes / Protect (though it requires a Tera) and Spins away its hazards quite easily while deleting it with Freeze Dry.
Of course a Pokemon like this gets completely fried by some common Pokemon, namely Gholdengo, Gambit, Iron Valiant, and Ogerpon (though Ogerpon can't switch in). Nonetheless, a fast Spin and Haze are valuable commodities in the current metagame and even against Pokemon like Gholdengo and Gambit, it can use Haze to reset their boost, which is valuable in certain positions. Freeze Dry in general is a very good STAB attack in current meta.
I nominate for Ursaluna, Manaphy, Gholdengo, Kingambit, and Valient to get the boot. Gholdengo specifically I think has warped the meta in a way that really cannot be understated purely due to the horrible implementation of Good As Gold (thanks a lot, Gamefreak), and I also just dislike constantly dying to a guy who looks like he wants to sell me cheese.
Dammit. If we ban Valiant, then I sure hope King gambit follows because Valiant has been one of the better checks to it. 
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
Yeah, I agree. Making Ghold the priority right now is not the best decision imo and suspecting it first would be a waste of time. Having said that, even if we somehow get it banned, then it doesn't matter if the next dlc comes a couple weeks after since the issue is the present day. If Ghold causes problems now then we get rid of it. If not, then don't. Well, unless the date for the next dlc is like less than a couple weeks since that's how long suspects takes. Either way, I don't think Gholdengo should be a priority right now. The others on the radar, aside from IV and Waterpon, probably should take priority. On the rader, I'd say Kingambit has to be most pressing issue followed by Ursaluna but that's just my opinion
+2 252 Atk Iron Valiant Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 175-206 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
+2 252 Atk Iron Valiant Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 118-139 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (after the first Knock)
Checks physical Valiant no problem.
Admittedly not a full on CM Valiant check, but SpD Gliscor is only 3HKOd by unboosted Moonblast and can Toxic. If it CM’s, it lives +1 even after Tera Fairy. Even then….Its not like CM variants have limited counterplay. Right off the bat..
Tera Waterpon
Glowking
Scizor
Pex
Moth
Clod
SpD Molt
Unaware Clef
Cinder eats any +1 hit and threatens with Pyro
Amoonguss
Not to mention the big 4mss with CM variants which is also a big problem with Manaphy rn. You want Psyshock to hit Moth but suddenly no Tbolt or Sball or Encore.
Very happy Valiant is on the radar as I find it very easy to abuse in the mid-ladder and very hard to suss out the set due to the insane versatility.
Also, Gliscor is not a great Valiant check, as you get 2HKOed by +2 Spirt Break and +1 Moonblast, can get turned into fodder with Encore sets, and Protect is really dangerous against set-up Valiant. Uninvested Earthquake does not 2HKO. Plus Valiant apparently can run a tera water Liquidation according to onsite analysis if you're really afraid of Gliscor.
Also, Gliscor is not a great Valiant check, as you get 2HKOed by +2 Spirt Break and +1 Moonblast, can get turned into fodder with Encore sets, and Protect is really dangerous against set-up Valiant. Uninvested Earthquake does not 2HKO. Plus Valiant apparently can run a tera water Liquidation according to onsite analysis if you're really afraid of Gliscor.
yeah, we should definitely hold off on ghold. if anything, it's unhealthy at the absolute worst, and i personally don't even think it reaches that level. realistically, it blocks exactly three forms of removal that other spinblockers don't: defog from corviknight, defog from mandibuzz, and mortal spin from glimmora. everything else with defog either has serious non-gholdengo viability issues, doesn't run it, or can threaten/ignore gholdengo and usually get a defog off despite its presence (and none of them are major meta presences even with that advantage). do those three extra blocks really make that much of a difference, or is it just the general lack of viable defoggers and massive influx of new spikes setters simultaneously? i think it's the latter
I really hope we get another suspect for kingambit sooner rather than later.
I get it, we got the first one wrong, we are sorry, please don't leave us hostage to the sunglasses bully for too long because of it.
Tbh manaphy would survive a suspect if it got one (he's just not as impressive as stuff as gambit that survived it). Not sure about Luna.
The rest seems stuff that will be better evaluated after the dlc. I'm happy to see valiant there, it's just an Uber with a hat and a trenchcoat that nobody is noticing because of stuff like tera and even more broken mons.
It's so fun seeing Dragonite on the old radar, now we dont even consider him problematic.
I get it, we got the first one wrong, we are sorry, please don't leave us hostage to the sunglasses bully for too long because of it.
Tbh manaphy would survive a suspect if it got one (he's just not as impressive as stuff as gambit that survived it). Not sure about Luna.
The rest seems stuff that will be better evaluated after the dlc. I'm happy to see valiant there, it's just an Uber with a hat and a trenchcoat that nobody is noticing because of stuff like tera and even more broken mons.
It's so fun seeing Dragonite on the old radar, now we dont even consider him problematic.
Is the ursaluna shiny on purpose or was it a mistake?
wow, I have to admit that I wasn't expecting most of the pokemon that are currently on the radar.
especially manaphy, a few days ago I asked here about her and you people told me that she has got four moveslot syndrom.
and I barely see anyone using her anyway.
I wonder if ursaluna bloodmoon is going to end up like the original ursaluna or not.
considered for ban, dodging the ban, and then not even managing to stay in OU.
anyway, I am okay with whatever happens to the pokemon on the radar, I don't care if they stay I don't care if they go.
the chien-pao's first ban really changed the way I see bans on this game since many UU pokemon rose to OU.
I am only going to be mildly dissapointed if gliscor leaves. it is an enjoyable pokemon to have around.
it is weird that it made it there, I don't think that this pokemon can sweep your entire team, or at least a big portion of it, like most other pokemon on the radar.
especially manaphy, a few days ago I asked here about her and you people told me that she has got four moveslot syndrom.
and I barely see anyone using her anyway.
I wonder if ursaluna bloodmoon is going to end up like the original ursaluna or not.
considered for ban, dodging the ban, and then not even managing to stay in OU.
anyway, I am okay with whatever happens to the pokemon on the radar, I don't care if they stay I don't care if they go.
the chien-pao's first ban really changed the way I see bans on this game since many UU pokemon rose to OU.
I am only going to be mildly dissapointed if gliscor leaves. it is an enjoyable pokemon to have around.
it is weird that it made it there, I don't think that this pokemon can sweep your entire team, or at least a big portion of it, like most other pokemon on the radar.
(reasoning for gliscor's inclusion from the On The Radar post)
Gliscor is a unique defensive and utility presence that many believe warps the metagame. It is a more unique case as it has plenty of conventional checks and counters, but it provides a premium presence that can cause a different type of strain on team construction and gameplan execution. Initial survey support was very low, but we will continue to keep an eye on it as some people both within the council and externally raise concern over its presence.
(TLDR: it's on the radar because of it's defensive capabilities and utility, not because of it's offensive presence)
I should have phrased my self differently:
it is weird that it ended up on the radar for its "defensive and utility precense"there have been other defensive pokemon with utility that haven't been considered for ban.
it hasn't changed much from previous generations.
in fact, it got nerfed since it lost roost.
It however now has Spikes and Tspikes. Also, it got nerfed by losing Roost, but other Mons lost Toxic and Knock Off, while Gliscor didn't, so it's a great progress enabler.
Even if it didn't gain other tools while losing Roost , it's not about it changing much from previous generations, it's about how it functions in this one. The other generations don't matter when talking about this one
MattC (Banned)
formerly The2009Zapdos
"Hey what's up guys? It's Finchinator here"
Damn bro I miss the YouTube content. That aside, I feel like this radar is... kinda accurate? I'm not totally sure what the deal with dengo is but everything else I understand. So let me give my brief thoughts on the radar as a whole.
With Dracovish gone we have... a lesser Dracovish. I never thought I'd see the day of STAB Ludicolo coverage being oppressive, but here we are.
It's hilarious how broke and not broken this thing is. If you don't have an Encore user, then God forbid you pray you surving. It has a nearly unresisted STAB combo safe for Corviknight, but it is still pretty powerful. Having Moonlight healing over Ursaluna's non existent recovery is also a plus. This thing is the equivalent of priority welding Spectrier -- limited movepools, but that's all it needs. Speaking of Encore,
Iron Valiant. Swords Dance, Calm Mind, Specially based Speed boosting Booster Energy. I do think that this is an issue. As much as I like it for design and sweeping teams, it's very common for an Iron Valiant to just wreck an entire team. And it got Vacuum Wave for priority against faster things. But this thing is like the same speed as max speed Eleki so wtf is outspending it?
If this thing still had roost, this would be another story. But even if this is the case it's basically immune to status, has all 3 hazards, and also has the very limited distribution of Toxic. Also, I think there was this Swords Dance Scale Shot set on the ladder that did well. Pick and choose your poison with this guy, or he'll do it for you.
OU Leader Finchinator banner himself. Even in spite of people kinda forgetting this dude, he's STILL a problem. I firmly believe if this thing has Knock Off and Pursuit that it would be banned months ago. But it's now or never people -- get rid of this thing.
Manaphy. Featuring a status healing Calm Mind. Who thought this was a good idea? But seriously I don't think anything can stand up to his thing.
Finally, we have Mr. String Cheese. This is a hazard filled metagame. Gholdengo... can stop hazards from getting negated. The fact that no form (and I mean no form) of removal can stop this thing even after Mortal Spin Glimmora was introduced is baffling. Aegislash typing is also really good defensively. We all know the reason why Great Tusk is faster than this thing: if it wasn't, we'd be in huge danger.Generic responses sure, but honestly this radar shocks and doesn't shock me at the same time. Hopefully the metagame is better after everything is said and done
May be coming back in October with baseball ending, maybe
Ye, I got 4-5 on 8!
